Second, this is obviously a boondoggle with Trump leading the clown parade and Musk tagging along for the $$$. Then the military industrial complex will get on board as careers and massive amounts of money can be made. Whether feasible or not doesn't matter.
Canada will just have to rag the puck until the lunacy stops.
Of course, the Yanks could spend some of that money on health care, but ...
I'm convinced this is just yet another TrumpGrift. He'll issue a Bitcoin or some jpeg art using a golden missle theme and steal another grand or 2 from most of the morons in his cult
I dunno, the whole Golden Dome thing has a real aura of Bo-Mark Missile v.2.0 about it. The Bo-mark, of course, was supposed to replace the Avro Arrow. Only two Bo-mark bases were built, in North Bay, Ontario and La Macaza, Quebec. Then when our politicians ( and yes, we were governed by donkeys back then, too) realized that the freaking missiles were useless unless they were tipped with nuclear warheads, and suddenly, the whole brilliant idea of shooting down Russian nukes with US nukes OVER Canada didn’t seem such a great idea any more, so they bagged the whole thing.
When the americans spend money to boost their economy they spend on military rather than civilian infrastructure. Too bad because their civilian stuff, especially in red states, needs work.
I think there are two things here: 1) this is just a lame way to inject Canadian dollars back into their economy, 2) it’s an offer we can’t accept and he’ll use this as the pretence for invasion saying that without Canada’s participation it puts america at risk. It’s flimsy, like much of his rationale, but he only has to convince the maga this matters, before the mid term elections.
I think Trump is looking for a way into Canada militarily sometime in the next 18 months.
BC6, your summary of the background was great. The analysis is somewhat lacking. Despite what anyone’s opinion of the current president is, there are some key facts:
1. Right now, the Russia, the PRC and DPRK have thousands of missiles, both nuclear and conventionally armed, that can threaten Canada. China is building more missiles, faster than anyone else.
2. Canada’s only ability to do anything about an inbound missile rests on a very small number of CF-18s.
3. NORAD and USNORTHCOM have been working almost all of the elements of Golden dome for years, so most of this isn’t new.
4. Integrated Air and Missile Defence (IAMD) was an “explore” item in the most recent defence policy Our North Strong and Free - the government has stated its intention to defend Canada. OTHR is a part of IAMD, but not the only part.
1. Canada is unlikely to be a target of either Russian or Chinese missiles. We know what the target would be. ICBMs aren’t conventionally armed. The fact that thousands of missiles have been aimed at the US isn’t anything new and has been the case for decades. Nothing has changed.
2. A CF-18 cannot shoot down a ballistic missile.
3. USNORTHCOM is responsible for the conduct of missile defence, not research. The Missile Defence Agency does that. NORAD doesn’t do either and concentrates on air-breathing threats. Regardless, what the US has done hasn’t exactly been effective. The “element” you mention - GBI - was mentioned in the piece. I didn’t mention the NGI because it doesn’t matter. Neither are a Trump invention and predate Golden Dome.
4. OK, great. And? This doesn’t mean we need to be part of Trump’s brainiac scheme.
Thanks. To update a few things based on the realities of today and what adversaries are developing or have developed:
1. The full scale invasion of Ukraine was unlikely until Jan 2022. Unlikely doesn’t mean we should be undefended. The realistic kinetic military threat we face in Canada is a missile coming from over the horizon. It isn’t Russian tanks driving over the pole, or the Chinese airborne corps parachuting into BC. Those conventionally and nuclear armed missiles can be fired from submarines, navy vessels, merchant ships from sea containers, manned bombers and from missile silos. ICBMs aren’t the only threat.
2. Correct. Ballistic missiles aren’t the only threat.
3. The US BMD development has driven adversaries to develop maneuvering hypersonic weapons that can evade defences. Measure - countermeasure. Golden dome is a counter-counter measure.
4. Agreed. This is more than just Trump’s scheme. Don’t dismiss it based on our shared disdain for that individual. It’s more helpful to look at the threat we’re facing with a solid understanding of adversary capabilities and intent.
Seeing the attempt at a Great Leap Forward by the gang in DC has had me wondering if there any think tanks I could try to get a job with in Ontario. There will never be a Golden Dome. There will be a ton of people getting fired for not being able to deliver the impossible to POTUS.
Hiring away a bunch of US thinkers to come up with papers in think tanks wouldn’t be a bad deal at this point. POTUS is already getting bad advice. Taking away possible sources of good advice would make him more vulnerable down the road.
Nope won’t happen. To expensive .Trump probably doodle a half circle on a EO and thought WOW a Dome over UFST to protect from attack. Unrealistic drivel. Even if it could be done UFST doesn’t have the TECHNICAL PROWESS to achieve such a Venture. And it would take at least a Decade to achieve.Maybe China could achieve such a Missile Defense way before UFST. Anyway just the cost would make it in unaffordable. And it would be a very large burden on the UFST TAXPAYERS who would pay for it , or more money into their Deficit. Maybe Trump Family can sell GOLDEN DOME COINS.
The Canadian Government won’t fall for such an endeavor. Threats or not. Maybe Premier Smith of Alberta might be interested in a ANTI-SCANDAL DOME .
There was an interesting podcast on The Line recently with General Clancy, a former DComd of NORAD, and he goes into pretty good detail of the systems. He made the case that if anything, there would be no dome, but some ‘golden bubbles’ where some key sites and infrastructure could be protected with more short to medium range solutions. That is how the Iron Dome works, where the country has been mapped out to identify critical locations. If a missile is going to impact a non-critical location, it’s ignored and allowed to hit. Also for a really great description of the ICBM process, read Annie Jacobson’s Nuclear War.
I’m not a military expert but thought it had always been the case that any missiles bound for the continental US would most likely be shot down over Canada. The most logical trajectory have missiles going over the pole, right? So, even if we say no to being involved in Golden Dome (recognizing inherent complexity and improbability of the system working), we have a significant stake. That is one of the reasons why NORAD exists in the first place.
Also, does it not seem likely that the project as described would be contrary to the Outer Space Treaty? And as such we have to decide whether we are keen to be party to the generation of a new arms race in near orbit when so much of our modern economy is reliant on the peaceful use of space.
NORAD doesn’t include active ballistic missile defence; its aimed at air breathing threats. Even the warning radars for ballistic missile attack (BMEWS) are outside NORAD’s scope. That being said, NORAD exists primarily to defend the US and its nuclear forces and has means of warning of ballistic missile activity, which it would as a matter of course.
Golden Dome supposedly aims at killing missiles in their boost phase - over enemy territory. This is almost impossible with current technology and would require space- based interceptors. This would indeed violate the Outer Space Treaty. Trump won’t care.
I don’t see Carney buying into anything with him. trump is a lunatic and cannot be trusted. TACO traitor and a bottom-feeder.
First, thank you for the concise overview.
Second, this is obviously a boondoggle with Trump leading the clown parade and Musk tagging along for the $$$. Then the military industrial complex will get on board as careers and massive amounts of money can be made. Whether feasible or not doesn't matter.
Canada will just have to rag the puck until the lunacy stops.
Of course, the Yanks could spend some of that money on health care, but ...
I vividly remember the Reagan Star Wars days, my Dad never stopped calling him Ronnie Raygun.
I miss the days when Dad worked at “Ronnie’s Rocket Ranch”.
I'm convinced this is just yet another TrumpGrift. He'll issue a Bitcoin or some jpeg art using a golden missle theme and steal another grand or 2 from most of the morons in his cult
I dunno, the whole Golden Dome thing has a real aura of Bo-Mark Missile v.2.0 about it. The Bo-mark, of course, was supposed to replace the Avro Arrow. Only two Bo-mark bases were built, in North Bay, Ontario and La Macaza, Quebec. Then when our politicians ( and yes, we were governed by donkeys back then, too) realized that the freaking missiles were useless unless they were tipped with nuclear warheads, and suddenly, the whole brilliant idea of shooting down Russian nukes with US nukes OVER Canada didn’t seem such a great idea any more, so they bagged the whole thing.
When the americans spend money to boost their economy they spend on military rather than civilian infrastructure. Too bad because their civilian stuff, especially in red states, needs work.
I think there are two things here: 1) this is just a lame way to inject Canadian dollars back into their economy, 2) it’s an offer we can’t accept and he’ll use this as the pretence for invasion saying that without Canada’s participation it puts america at risk. It’s flimsy, like much of his rationale, but he only has to convince the maga this matters, before the mid term elections.
I think Trump is looking for a way into Canada militarily sometime in the next 18 months.
BC6, your summary of the background was great. The analysis is somewhat lacking. Despite what anyone’s opinion of the current president is, there are some key facts:
1. Right now, the Russia, the PRC and DPRK have thousands of missiles, both nuclear and conventionally armed, that can threaten Canada. China is building more missiles, faster than anyone else.
2. Canada’s only ability to do anything about an inbound missile rests on a very small number of CF-18s.
3. NORAD and USNORTHCOM have been working almost all of the elements of Golden dome for years, so most of this isn’t new.
4. Integrated Air and Missile Defence (IAMD) was an “explore” item in the most recent defence policy Our North Strong and Free - the government has stated its intention to defend Canada. OTHR is a part of IAMD, but not the only part.
Since we’re making lists:
1. Canada is unlikely to be a target of either Russian or Chinese missiles. We know what the target would be. ICBMs aren’t conventionally armed. The fact that thousands of missiles have been aimed at the US isn’t anything new and has been the case for decades. Nothing has changed.
2. A CF-18 cannot shoot down a ballistic missile.
3. USNORTHCOM is responsible for the conduct of missile defence, not research. The Missile Defence Agency does that. NORAD doesn’t do either and concentrates on air-breathing threats. Regardless, what the US has done hasn’t exactly been effective. The “element” you mention - GBI - was mentioned in the piece. I didn’t mention the NGI because it doesn’t matter. Neither are a Trump invention and predate Golden Dome.
4. OK, great. And? This doesn’t mean we need to be part of Trump’s brainiac scheme.
*edited to clean up typos*
Thanks. To update a few things based on the realities of today and what adversaries are developing or have developed:
1. The full scale invasion of Ukraine was unlikely until Jan 2022. Unlikely doesn’t mean we should be undefended. The realistic kinetic military threat we face in Canada is a missile coming from over the horizon. It isn’t Russian tanks driving over the pole, or the Chinese airborne corps parachuting into BC. Those conventionally and nuclear armed missiles can be fired from submarines, navy vessels, merchant ships from sea containers, manned bombers and from missile silos. ICBMs aren’t the only threat.
2. Correct. Ballistic missiles aren’t the only threat.
3. The US BMD development has driven adversaries to develop maneuvering hypersonic weapons that can evade defences. Measure - countermeasure. Golden dome is a counter-counter measure.
4. Agreed. This is more than just Trump’s scheme. Don’t dismiss it based on our shared disdain for that individual. It’s more helpful to look at the threat we’re facing with a solid understanding of adversary capabilities and intent.
I don’t see how Trump will last till end of his term.
🙏
Seeing the attempt at a Great Leap Forward by the gang in DC has had me wondering if there any think tanks I could try to get a job with in Ontario. There will never be a Golden Dome. There will be a ton of people getting fired for not being able to deliver the impossible to POTUS.
Hiring away a bunch of US thinkers to come up with papers in think tanks wouldn’t be a bad deal at this point. POTUS is already getting bad advice. Taking away possible sources of good advice would make him more vulnerable down the road.
Nope won’t happen. To expensive .Trump probably doodle a half circle on a EO and thought WOW a Dome over UFST to protect from attack. Unrealistic drivel. Even if it could be done UFST doesn’t have the TECHNICAL PROWESS to achieve such a Venture. And it would take at least a Decade to achieve.Maybe China could achieve such a Missile Defense way before UFST. Anyway just the cost would make it in unaffordable. And it would be a very large burden on the UFST TAXPAYERS who would pay for it , or more money into their Deficit. Maybe Trump Family can sell GOLDEN DOME COINS.
The Canadian Government won’t fall for such an endeavor. Threats or not. Maybe Premier Smith of Alberta might be interested in a ANTI-SCANDAL DOME .
There was an interesting podcast on The Line recently with General Clancy, a former DComd of NORAD, and he goes into pretty good detail of the systems. He made the case that if anything, there would be no dome, but some ‘golden bubbles’ where some key sites and infrastructure could be protected with more short to medium range solutions. That is how the Iron Dome works, where the country has been mapped out to identify critical locations. If a missile is going to impact a non-critical location, it’s ignored and allowed to hit. Also for a really great description of the ICBM process, read Annie Jacobson’s Nuclear War.
We’ll just sell off $61B in US Treasury Bonds, then we’ll have the money. No biggie.
oops
Iron Dome partly protects an area the size of Connecticut, or PEI. Nothing like that can work for a Continent.
We don't need to get involved with Trump on any level. By signing on, our defenders would not be able to enter our airspace. Nice try, Donald.
I’m not a military expert but thought it had always been the case that any missiles bound for the continental US would most likely be shot down over Canada. The most logical trajectory have missiles going over the pole, right? So, even if we say no to being involved in Golden Dome (recognizing inherent complexity and improbability of the system working), we have a significant stake. That is one of the reasons why NORAD exists in the first place.
Also, does it not seem likely that the project as described would be contrary to the Outer Space Treaty? And as such we have to decide whether we are keen to be party to the generation of a new arms race in near orbit when so much of our modern economy is reliant on the peaceful use of space.
NORAD doesn’t include active ballistic missile defence; its aimed at air breathing threats. Even the warning radars for ballistic missile attack (BMEWS) are outside NORAD’s scope. That being said, NORAD exists primarily to defend the US and its nuclear forces and has means of warning of ballistic missile activity, which it would as a matter of course.
Golden Dome supposedly aims at killing missiles in their boost phase - over enemy territory. This is almost impossible with current technology and would require space- based interceptors. This would indeed violate the Outer Space Treaty. Trump won’t care.
Thank you for this. As usual, you explain things that the rest of us have no clue about, but that are so important.